tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6138082354348831474.post7672174137172469161..comments2024-03-21T00:42:18.535-07:00Comments on Koenraad Elst: Yoga and sexual conductKoenraad Elsthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02503713923882807510noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6138082354348831474.post-13157214568992135722018-06-20T18:10:38.706-07:002018-06-20T18:10:38.706-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Adelehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05938472890683311271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6138082354348831474.post-17255898836060732082014-10-11T22:58:17.989-07:002014-10-11T22:58:17.989-07:00Celibacy is stupid, especially the Catholic Church...Celibacy is stupid, especially the Catholic Church forced Priest celibacy. <br /><br />There is no Celibacy in judaism and Islam, some researchers think that the Essenes never existed.Thugnacioushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01103059222261824689noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6138082354348831474.post-23430834971424161262014-10-04T13:43:39.720-07:002014-10-04T13:43:39.720-07:00The Vedic rishis did not have a prejudice against ...The Vedic rishis did not have a prejudice against sexual activity as an obstruction to spiritual knowledge. This is evidenced by the frequent metaphor "like a well-dressed wife reveals herself to her husband". In fact in the jnana sukta (RV 10.71) divine wisdom is supposed to reveal herself to her chosen one in like manner. <br /><br />Incidentally, your remark on sexual symbolism and the pairs like fire and water, etc, brought to mind the intricate Vedic symbolism of Agni. At the same time, Agni is a reconciliation of the pairs (he is called the bull and the cow) as well as a "male" attracting all the females (e.g. RV 4.58.8). He is also the fire within water (apam napat, son of waters) just as purusha has entered prakriti.<br /><br />Overall, great article with many well-represented viewpoints and some deep "life-lesson" thoughts.Golden Reedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08249389319082539591noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6138082354348831474.post-10775285623851693332014-10-01T12:13:19.690-07:002014-10-01T12:13:19.690-07:00Lot of wisdom in this article. My own experience i...Lot of wisdom in this article. My own experience indicates that celibacy is especially difficult to sustain when one is young and virile. Over time, when the novelty of the experiences is gone, one realizes that sexual acts are driven by response to urges and our past samskaras. The middle path is the best for the majority, but for serious spiritual seekers, at some stage they do need to renounce and sublimate sex. Bhuvanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07555147183688312897noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6138082354348831474.post-29301682683160108192014-09-21T20:52:51.726-07:002014-09-21T20:52:51.726-07:00There seems to be some proximate relationship betw...There seems to be some proximate relationship between sexual urge and spiritual practice. In Taittiriya Upanishad, Bhriguvalli, one comes across the phrase "prajatiramrtamananda ityupasthe". Roughly translated, it means "the ananda of procreation in penis (upastha)". Brihadaranyaka Upanishad, in its last sections elaborately discusses and explains how sex should be performed for obtaining desired progeny. These are but random examples of reference to sex in a spiritual text. In kundalini yoga also,it is said that the sexual prowess of the practitioner is turned upwards to flow from Muladhara to Sahasrara, whence, the yogi attains liberation from the cycle of birth and death. Sri Ramakrishna also repeatedly states that deep spiritual truths cannot be understood without celibacy. One wonders whether spirituality and sex are two faces of the same coin. The relationship between the two has not been understood clearly, at least by lay persons, though spiritual practitioners might have understood. Gururaj B Nhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03964816448433835494noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6138082354348831474.post-53759985684711348682014-09-18T11:45:02.075-07:002014-09-18T11:45:02.075-07:00@Turbolag: Thanks for your testimony.
@Turbolag: Thanks for your testimony.<br />Koenraad Elsthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02503713923882807510noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6138082354348831474.post-30310210192231410502014-09-18T11:43:40.594-07:002014-09-18T11:43:40.594-07:00As for Vyasa, the fact that he is credited with a ...As for Vyasa, the fact that he is credited with a son of his own provides another example of the Vedic tolerance of a more fluid definition of celibacy vs. the married state. Men could have a family in one stage of life (grhasthasrama) and become wandering ascetics (parivrajaka) in the next stage (vanaprastha). It was not the box-type division of later Hindu society with a class of renunciates (sannyasin) who do nothing else in life, often already from childhood (bal-brahmacarya).Koenraad Elsthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02503713923882807510noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6138082354348831474.post-48407147225452705542014-09-16T23:40:17.952-07:002014-09-16T23:40:17.952-07:00Dr. Elst: I had this in mind "if the sperm do...Dr. Elst: I had this in mind "if the sperm donor was not Vyasa but Bhishma ..."rameshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05996106647760518589noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6138082354348831474.post-67194646378870220932014-09-16T17:34:15.638-07:002014-09-16T17:34:15.638-07:00@Ramesh: Please read correctly: I never said Bhish...@Ramesh: Please read correctly: I never said Bhishma had children, on the contrary; nor did I treat questions like his real name, which was not the subject. But on second thought, his name (or nickname) tells a whole story, viz. how celibacy in ancient India was still deemed terrible, a stark contrast with later Hinduism, which glorified and deproblematized celibacy.<br />Koenraad Elsthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02503713923882807510noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6138082354348831474.post-8462169537291259862014-09-16T03:21:41.517-07:002014-09-16T03:21:41.517-07:00@Shravan / Dr. Elst:
thats completely wrong. Bhish...@Shravan / Dr. Elst:<br />thats completely wrong. Bhishma (one of the terrible oath) -- his pre-oath name was Devavrata -- did not father any children. <br />It was Vyasa who fathered the children of Vichitravirya's two wives (& the maid). This practice was called "niyoga" <br />And yes Vyasa was married and his son was the famous renunciate/celibate Rishi Suka.rameshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05996106647760518589noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6138082354348831474.post-41979086101757459242014-09-15T13:38:43.620-07:002014-09-15T13:38:43.620-07:00@Shravan: if the sperm donor was not Vyasa but Bhi...@Shravan: if the sperm donor was not Vyasa but Bhishma, then that proves my point, for Bhishma was a confirmed celibate. His father had promised his second wife that he son would succeed him, not the first wife's son, Bhishma. As she feared that Bhishma's son in his turn would think differently and challenge her own son, Bhishma promised never to marry or have children. Thank you for mentioning Bhishma, for he illustrates another relevant point about celibacy. As I learned it, "bhishma" means "terrible", fully "Bhishma of the terrible oath", viz. the oath of celibacy. Later in Hindu society, celibacy became a routine affair, but in the old days, it was very realistically deemed terrible.Koenraad Elsthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02503713923882807510noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6138082354348831474.post-82147914604141364002014-09-15T10:40:38.755-07:002014-09-15T10:40:38.755-07:00You were biologically asexual and you didnot have ...You were biologically asexual and you didnot have to strive to be celibate or free from sexual thoughts...castration would bring the same effect...no challenge would remain regarding the achievement of celibacy..but castration may also derange a person's mind ala Malik Kafur and Mohammad Qajar<br /><br /><br />even the topmost pontiff of the Lingayats,Veerabhadra Chennamalla Swami, said celibacy is supreme challenge and most monks fail so he wants to remove the clause of celibacy from his order....<br /><br /><br />Please read in outlookindia dot com the article "Confessions of a Saffron Robe"...............As for me if I really exercise will power I can last 20-30 days and my record is 67 days when I just started out...but lately I am seeing always exercising willpower and suppressing the desire to masturbate is not a skillful method and thats why I was forced to invent Tantric Vipassana...but the loss of mental energy while doing this meditation is significant..<br /><br /><br />Sorry if my thoughts are a bit haphazard, as a novice celibate Yogi who still pursues career, this article of yours is heaven sent for me...If you feel this comment is too graphic or improper then please feel free to delete it, else I would love to have a response from you Sir<br /><br />other than that I also encourage other normal non- renunciant people who are celibate to participate in the conversation..<br /><br /><br /><br />and Dr. Elst since you have started this yoga series..can you please do an article on "obects of meditation" in Yoga Sutras...I was reading the Bhasya (Ganganath Jha) and there even attainment of heaven, dis-embodiment and dissolution in Nature have been regarded as Meditation objects) .....i wonder how they can be meditation objects (compared to say breath) given that centering on them/conceptualizing them (dharana) and then repeatedly sending out your attention stream/conciousness stream to them (dhyana) might be a bit cumbersome compared to just following the breath...........I am interested in Samprajanata/Savikalpa Samadhi and would like to know your view, whether running the solution of a mathematical problem constantly in one's head or a computer code in dharana,dhyana style would constitute proper meditation object or not.............................<br /><br /><br />once again thanks for this article and would love a response from youTurbolag Panjahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17588337373998480646noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6138082354348831474.post-15993088644507721332014-09-15T10:39:55.795-07:002014-09-15T10:39:55.795-07:00I guess Gandhi was onto something with his experim...I guess Gandhi was onto something with his experiments (like he would ask the girls to rub him as they lie all naked but he in turn would have self control not to rub them)...but he should not have chosen such young girls of good repute..sex workers would have been fine....I do this pornographic imagery...anyways tantric Vipassana is mentally very taxing but very effective...one session of tantric vipassana for three hours and I can be continent/celibate (no masturbation,sex,edging,rubbing) for the next two weeks..if I can increase my practice I think I can be the celibate I want to be (a duration of between 2-3 months between slips or if I set a really lofty goal then around 8 months) ................sex desire works in males like almost a circadian rhythm..soemtimes it hits every 12 hours..sometimes every 2-3 days or sometimes once every week...if a man is not completely asexual, I think he would have a bout of sex desire at least once a week regardless of age..now many say if you want to completely dissolve sex desire then why not go for castration? to that I answer....remember the time when you were between 0-12 or 13?Turbolag Panjahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17588337373998480646noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6138082354348831474.post-59217158076818010652014-09-15T10:39:30.645-07:002014-09-15T10:39:30.645-07:00Dear Dr. Koenraad Elst,
Than...Dear Dr. Koenraad Elst,<br /> Thank you for posting this...I am a normal lifelong celibate 29 yr old Hindu who practises yoga keeping the Yoga Sutra as the sole Guideline (I do have to refer to Samkhya Karia from time to time to get a better understanding of the philosphical base upon which Yoga operates....IMO B.Gita is a poor book in espousing Yoga since it classifies anything and everything under Yoga though there are a few gems about posture, the out-breath and the third eye as mentioned in the comment section of the first article of your yoga series)....Will you be so kind as to be open to response to the comment section of this article for the next week or so? I can gurantee this article will engender a huge amount of conversation...since I undertook my vow of lifelong celibacy around 2.5 years back, I have contacted accomplished monks and yogis around the world and placed private questions to them regarding sexual continence...Surprisingly many of them have been forthcoming with answers even though it encroaches on their privacy...There is a white American monk who has been living in the forests of Burma or the last 20+ years (yes even bathing and going to bathroom in the open in forest), who in my estimation is the best celibate I have ever encountered....He told me that he managed to go 4 years without any masturbation whatsoever when he first ordained as the zealot in him carried him through...but later his fortitude weakened...he is past 50 now..He says even now fantasies of women are very strong in him and when he once went to US he even had a brief fling with an American woman supporter of him (not full intercourse which would entail defeat/parajika in Thervada Buddhism)...My Guru (who always advised me to only follow Yoga Sutra though he himself strays to Upanishads a lot) who is around 57, has managed only now to have a streak of around 7 months eventhough he has been trying from around 25 years...He even started living out of a van in US, (he is also white American), just to improve his celibacy streaks.........then I read the interview of a supremely disciplined 94 year old Thai monk (at budhist geeks dot com) who said that his mind gets rarely distracted but if it ever does get distracted, it invariably wanders off to thoughts regarding women! I. personally through my meditation, have come to realize that sexual desire is the most primal desire in a human being (yes more primal than hunger) after the desire to exist/self-preservation...there are times I have had bouts of uncontrollable sexual desire even at the end of 5 day fasts (complete fasts with only water)..Seeing that this is an almost insurmountable challenge (destruction of sexual desire and not just improving celibacy streaks/increasing the duration of sexual continence) , I devised my own style of meditation called Tantric Vipassana drawing upon my not-so-meagre experience in meditation. What I do is keep the object of desire in front of me and keep increasing the intensity of attraction, but I donot increase the my response towards it but remain mindful of every facet of my mind as it modifies itself under this external influence......Turbolag Panjahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17588337373998480646noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6138082354348831474.post-46498928440104475012014-09-15T09:57:07.275-07:002014-09-15T09:57:07.275-07:00Vichitravirya did not approach Vyasa, it was Bhish...Vichitravirya did not approach Vyasa, it was Bhishma. Also Vyasa was married and had a son I think, Shukacharya his name.<br /><br />It is correct that Sanyaaas Ashram is Optional.Shravan Tanjorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17298451633247843496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6138082354348831474.post-22047920361788639222014-09-15T02:17:10.336-07:002014-09-15T02:17:10.336-07:00Thank you! I have found one great yoga routine tha...Thank you! I have found one great yoga routine that helped me get rid of chronic back pain, doubled my energy and the best thing is that I lost 30 pounds in two months. Check out www.99yogashape.comflame93https://www.blogger.com/profile/06389941685211935972noreply@blogger.com